About a month ago I wrote and posted a review for the rogue-lite title “Mana Spark”. Its a great rogue-lite adventure with a couple of fresh ideas! The game was developed by BEHEMUTT and Kishimoto Studios and published by BEHEMUTT. After reaching out to Kishimoto Studios, I was fortunate enough to have an interview with André Kishimoto, the founder, and sole member of Kishimoto Studios as well as get a few comments from one of the founders of BEHEMUTT and game designer on Mana Spark: Ed Freitas. Throughout the interview, we discuss Andre’s relationship with video games, his studio, being an independent game developer, and of course the development of Mana Spark! Let’s dive in!
Mana Spark is the collaborative effort of Ed Freitas and Douglas Oliveira of BEHEMUTT and Andre Kishimoto of Kishimoto Studios.
Hello! Thank you for giving me some of your time for an interview. Would you please start by introducing yourself?
Andre: Hello, Wesley and readers of OrangeDrop!
I am André Kishimoto, a game developer, professor, and owner of Kishimoto Studios, from São Paulo, Brazil.
How long have you been a fan of video games and what did you play growing up? Any favorites?
Andre: It has been 30 years now since my parents got my first videogame, a Sega Master System. Even though I had cousins who had Atari and other electronic toys, SMS was the system that really got me into games. For the next 10 years, I would play lots of SMS, Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) and SNES games. But in the mid-90s, my family got an IBM PC and so I discovered computer programming and adventure games.
Favorites… Always hard to answer that because for me it can change from time to time, depending on the current mood, situation and so on. But there are some series that are a big influence for me: Silent Hill, Half-Life, Metal Gear Solid and adventure games from LucasArts, Sierra and other companies from the 90s.
What got you motivated/inspired to get into game design? Why game design?
Andre: Actually, I am a programmer. I decided to focus on that area since I was a kid because I learned that was how I could make games, that is how we can add interactivity in the computer.
I had made some “games” in the 90s (mostly text-based) and during my time in college (beginning of 2000), I met some friends who were also interested in game development. We would try making some demos, but everybody was focusing on code, on how to display sprites, parse and render 3D models… That was when I realized that, hey, we don’t really know how to make games! So, I decided to learn more about game design and how to change all those tech demos into something playable.
Do you see it as a career or a hobby?
Andre: Both. I always wanted to work with game development, and I am a former Glu Mobile and EA employee. I also consider game dev as a hobby because anyone can use it as a way to express oneself, to pass a message, or simply to have fun.
Let's move on to your studio- Kishimoto Studios.
When was your studio founded?
Andre: The studio was founded in June 2013.
How many people are part of it? Is it you alone?
Andre: It is just me. The truth is, I started the studio with three things in mind: to create my own games, to make games with friends (collab) and to get contract work (that is how many people work with game dev in Brazil).
How is it working alone?
Andre: We can go back to the career/hobby question. When time (and money) allows, I like to work alone on personal projects, which usually are experimental stuff. I can try different things, learn something new and work on things that I would not normally do.
It is lonely (duh, haha), but I am always in touch with some game dev friends – that is something I recommend: even if you work solo, gather a few friends and talk to each other, about your project, issues that are blocking your progress, fun things… just like you would do in a company.
Contract work… It really depends on the team. There are some teams that are really great to work with, that I want to work with again. And then there are some places where you are working on a team, but you are not really part of it… There is no bond.
Do you self publish or do you have ties with a publisher? Why?
Andre: All small/game jam/experimental games that I decide to publish are self-published because I do not see them as commercial products.
Mana Spark is the result of a partnership between two studios (Kishimoto Studios and BEHEMUTT) and BEHEMUTT took the responsibility to publish it on Steam and deal with QubicGames to release the game on Nintendo Switch.
Did you have a perspective on indie games/indie developers before creating games and creating a studio? If so, how has it changed since creating a game and a studio yourself?
Andre: Yes, I always tried to follow what other developers were creating, their struggles, what seemed to be working or not, and so on. But nowadays there are just too many people and projects to follow all the time, so I know I am missing some stuff.
What changed after I opened my studio is that now there are all these other areas, non-game-related but company-related, that I had to really learn about and must deal with every now and then. Also, the market and industry are always changing, so it is challenging.
As a “historical note”, I started looking at the indie scene when I discovered Spooky Castle by Mike Hommel/Hamumu Games (http://hamumu.com/) in the late 90s as well as Brazilian companies at the same time. I also learned a lot with the book The Indie Game Development Survival Guide by David Michael (2003).
If there was one tip you wish you would have known before going into game development, what would it be?
Andre: Do not spend too much time with your GDD. Prototype, test, validate, prototype, test, validate, prototype, test and validate again.
Back in the 90s-2000s, I would spend most of the time writing code to have a working framework, then a large amount of time thinking about the details of the game… and would end up with no game. Of course, that helped me land a job as a game programmer, but with all the tech available nowadays… Once you know your way in a game engine or if you are writing your own tools and tech and you have a working version of it, develop the game core and see if it works the way you imagined.
Also, check if the tips (this one included), examples, case studies, postmortems and so on fit your current situation. For instance, while I learned a lot from game design and productions books, most were written with bigger teams/companies in mind, so I had to adapt many things to my situation.
What is a GDD and why not spend too much time with it?
Andre: GDD means Game Design Document.
Well, nowadays I would not spend too much time writing the GDD because sometimes we start thinking about all the little details of the game, coming up with all the numbers for the game (how much damage an enemy will cause to the player, each character’s speed, etc.), writing backstories… And then, when you start putting everything in the game engine, you realize that “Damn! This is all a piece of ****!”. Maybe many things would work in your head, but I think you only really know if they work when you have those things in a working prototype.
Write the first version of your GDD so you do not forget important information for your game, but remember that there are things in your game that will change, especially when you start balancing it.
I would say, find the core of your game and put it to the test. Iterate until you have something good.
Now Let's talk about your game- Mana Spark. It's great!
Andre: Thank you! I am really glad that you liked it!
Is Mana Spark your first full-fledged game?
Andre: I have worked on other games, mostly mobile (J2ME/Brew feature phone and smartphones), but Mana Spark is the first commercial release of both Kishimoto Studios and BEHEMUTT. Another recently published game I worked on was Lila’s Tale VR by Skullfish Studios.
So, here is a thing that not everybody knows about Mana Spark development:
I’ve been friends with BEHEMUTT for many years, we worked together at the same company before opening our own studios and we did a couple of projects together before Mana Spark.
I am telling you this because Mana Spark started as a BEHEMUTT game (and it still is) and Kishimoto Studios was not involved at first. At least, not officially. But I was always checking the project as a close friend, helping them whenever possible.
Can you expand on your relationship with BEHEMUTT and their hand in creating Mana Spark?
Andre: I met Ed and Douglas in 2010 and we became great friends since then (we worked at the same company, but they were already friends way before that time). Even though I started my studio in 2013, we always stayed in touch, talking almost daily about personal projects we were working on. If there was a game development event in the city, we would try to go all together, meet other developers, show our work and so on.
So, Ed and Douglas (BEHEMUTT) started prototyping what would eventually be Mana Spark… around Q3 2015, I believe. After they came up with their first playable build, I would always test new builds, give feedback, find bugs, talk about code… And help whenever I could, spreading the word about the game to other people, giving flyers in events… Because we are friends and because I really enjoyed the game and wanted it and them to succeed.
In 2016 I was invited to be officially part of the team. We decided that a partnership between the studios would work and now here we are. *smiles*
What was the general idea you had for the game before you started creating it? What are some aspects that changed further in development?
Ed: I was in love with roguelikes in general and I had the desire to contribute at least a little bit with it and be part of its evolution. Our idea was to go for deeper combat than we usually see in the genre. The art had a big change from the start, we realized that it was looking really casual and that didn't match the other aspects of the game.
Speaking of development, how long did it take to create Mana Spark (roughly)? What were the most difficult parts during creation and why?
Andre: Hmm… I believe it took around 3 years?
Besides the challenge of creating a new game, there is no recipe, step-by-step process, that we can follow that guarantees the game is well balanced with enemies interacting with each other and that it feels good to play.
Were there any inspirations to you, even outside of video games, when creating Mana Spark?
Ed: The main inspiration was the new wave of roguelikes, like The Binding of Isaac and Spelunky, with games that have excellent combat systems like Monster Hunter and the Souls series.
You said you've seen my review and so you must have seen my bit on the music in the game. Was the choice for a calmer soundtrack just a coincidence or a “I like this so let's use it” situation OR was there more to it? Like a tone you wanted or something?
Andre: Ahh, awesome work from Luke Peña (http://lukepena.com/)! We wanted the music to give players the feeling of suspense and calmness, so we would tell Luke “we are thinking about this and that mood” and he would come up with the music and SFX.
Who created the detailed character art? (the ones that appear as you choose a character).
Andre: Those were created by Brazilian illustrator Gabriel Rubio. (https://www.artstation.com/gabrielrubio).
There are some interesting ideas in Mana Spark that I've touched on in my review such as researching enemies for weaknesses and the “try your luck” features. Did these ideas come from something you wanted when playing similar games or were they a new idea you had randomly?
Ed: Try Your Luck was a feature I created with the frustration of the end of a run in mind. That way you can not only start a new run really fast with some bonuses but it also encourages the use of all the different characters and equipment.
Are you proud of Mana Spark?
Andre: We are very proud! As mentioned before, Mana Spark is our first full commercial release. We know the game has flaws, but we are really happy with what we achieved with the constraints we had.
Are you planning on doing anything else with Mana Spark or have you moved on to new projects?
Andre: We have some new plans for Mana Spark which are still in negotiation. At the same time, each studio is working on different, separate things.
BEHEMUTT is working on a couple of prototypes that they think could have the potential to be their next project, but nothing concrete yet… And I am back with some experimental stuff that might be the next project for Kishimoto Studios.
Thank you for speaking with me today and offering your insight!
Andre: Thank you for playing and talking about Mana Spark!
You can find Mana Spark on these platforms!:
Nintendo Switch: https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/mana-spark-switch